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Date d'inscription : 23/07/2018
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Situational experiments Empty Situational experiments

Lun 31 Déc - 12:22
This thread will relate all the discoveries made by practical experiments made with fixed and controlled parameters, in order to understand the real behaviour of the SH3 damage system.

As in science, we will try to demonstrate everything, even the apparent most obvious facts, because the devil is always in the details, especially in SH3 !

QUESTIONS TO SOLVE :

- What is the scale of the explosive area ?
- If AL of the unit is greater than AL of the hit box, is the box able to loose HP ???
- If the 3D object number = 6 ?

.....


Dernière édition par Admin le Mar 19 Jan - 6:25, édité 7 fois
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Situational experiments Empty Re: Situational experiments

Sam 12 Jan - 21:54
What happens when AL is higher than AP ?
===================================================

REMINDERS (cf. VOCABULARY in the "Basics and therory" thread) :
DP = damage points (of the VD)
AL = armor level of the unit or a box
AP = max armor penetration value of a VD
^A = delta A = AL-AP


Conditions of the experiment :
- the VD's explosive area is "homogeneous" : minEF=maxEF (=DP) and min radius = max radius = 0,1.
- the tested object is a 3D model whose number=4, and is the subpart of a unit whose AL=40 and HP=??? and how far is this subpart from its father ???
- the zone type will show a particle effect as soon as 10% of its HP are destroyed.

____

# TEST 1

ZONE TYPE
HP=50
AL=72 (^A=32)

destructible

VD
DP=50
AP=40


RESULT : random number of shots to smash the object (from 1 to infinite)
RETEST ! SHOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE ! Probably the subpart is destroyed because the unit has been destroyed !!!!


Dernière édition par Admin le Mar 19 Jan - 6:01, édité 6 fois
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Messages : 30
Date d'inscription : 26/07/2018
Localisation : Palermo

Situational experiments Empty Re: Situational experiments

Ven 18 Jan - 0:35
According to the remarks by Observer that I found on the now defunct kickinbak.com forum, the factors to be considered for SH4 armor penetration are:

PT = Penetration Threshold, as defined in the [Global Params] section of zones.cfg
ALF = Armor Leveling Factor, as defined in the [Global Params] section of zones.cfg
AP = Armor Penetration factor, as defines in the AmmoDamageInfo controller of any given shell's .ZON file
HP = Hit Points factor, a random number between MinEF and MaxEF, as defines in the AmmoDamageInfo controller of any given shell's .ZON file

The actual armor penetration power is calculated according to this formula:

Armor Penetration = (random number between 1-PT and 1+PT)*AP + HP/ALF

Subsequent formulas:

Max Armor Penetration = (1+PT)*AP + MaxEF/ALF

Min Armor Penetration = (1-PT)*AP + MinEF/ALF


For SH5, things might be a bit different; according to one of the devs quoted by TheDarkWraith:

TheDarkWraith a écrit:Instead of the currently four values governing damages (AmmoDamageInfo – Hitpoints, ArmorLevel, MinRadius, MaxRadius) we need a little more
AP – Armor Penetration
MinEF – Explosive Damage Factor – the HitPoints of old
MaxEF -
MinRange – as before, for calculating the damage done through explosion
MaxRange – as before, for calculating the damage done through explosion
In the calculus below, we may also use the value “A”, being the armor value of the considered object.

A projectile will deal damage:
Explosive damage (ED) – damage done by the explosion

ED = random (MinEF, MaxEF); will be modified for range as before.

Steps to check damage dealt by a projectile
projectile hits object O in part P
Penetration check
Penetration roll:
k = 0.2 – subject to change
x = random (-k;+k)
Pen = AP * [1 + x]
Pen > = A results in penetration
If Penetration is successful: (else skip to 5)
4. Apply ED at point of impact, and skip to end; armor is ignored for penetrated object and all compartments inside it.
5. penetration was not successful:
6. apply explosion blast damage in impact point. Armor is considered as follows – for all objects in MaxRange, ED (corrected for range) is compared to 4 * A. If ED is greater, it is applied, to the object.

See the link below and following posts on the subsim forum for more details on the formulas:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2084157#post2084157
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Situational experiments Empty Re: Situational experiments

Ven 18 Jan - 12:52
Thank you very much for these documents !

Observer a écrit:The factors to be considered for SH4 armor penetration are:

PT = Penetration Threshold, as defined in the [Global Params] section of zones.cfg
ALF = Armor Leveling Factor, as defined in the [Global Params] section of zones.cfg
AP = Armor Penetration factor, as defines in the AmmoDamageInfo controller of any given shell's .ZON file
HP = Hit Points factor, a random number between MinEF and MaxEF, as defines in the AmmoDamageInfo controller of any given shell's .ZON file

The actual armor penetration power is calculated according to this formula:
Armor Penetration [power] = (random number between 1-PT and 1+PT)*AP + HP/ALF

Subsequent formulas:
Max Armor Penetration [power]= (1+PT)*AP + MaxEF/ALF
Min Armor Penetration [power] = (1-PT)*AP + MinEF/ALF

So the idea is that if the "calculated AP" is inferior to the AL of the unit/box, then the unit or box doesn't loose any HP.

TheDarkWraith a écrit:Instead of the currently four values governing damages (AmmoDamageInfo – Hitpoints, ArmorLevel, MinRadius, MaxRadius) we need a little more
AP – Armor Penetration
MinEF – Explosive Damage Factor – the HitPoints of old
MaxEF -
MinRange – as before, for calculating the damage done through explosion
MaxRange – as before, for calculating the damage done through explosion
In the calculus below, we may also use the value “A”, being the armor value of the considered object.

A projectile will deal damage:
Explosive damage (ED) – damage done by the explosion

ED = random (MinEF, MaxEF); will be modified for range as before.

Steps to check damage dealt by a projectile
projectile hits object O in part P
Penetration check
Penetration roll:
k = 0.2 – subject to change
x = random (-k;+k)
Pen = AP * [1 + x]
Pen > = A results in penetration
If Penetration is successful: (else skip to 5)
4. Apply ED at point of impact, and skip to end; armor is ignored for penetrated object and all compartments inside it.
5. penetration was not successful:
6. apply explosion blast damage in impact point. Armor is considered as follows – for all objects in MaxRange, ED (corrected for range) is compared to 4 * A. If ED is greater, it is applied, to the object.

This time, the "calculated AP" is calculated only from the AP : "calculated AP" = "Pen" = AP * (1+x)
... and 2 comparisons are made :
- if Pen >= AL, then :
- if ED > 4 AL, the unit (or box) takes damage. This last comparison is very strange !


Dernière édition par Admin le Mar 19 Jan - 6:24, édité 2 fois
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Ven 18 Jan - 21:28
TO TEST AGAIN

UNIT
HP=25
AL=24

ZONE TYPE (for the box of the main part and the sub-part)
HP=1
AL=100
destructible

VD
88mm AP and HE shells
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